Allowed bids

According to the bridge manual Junior players are not allowed to use the multi 2's and intermediate players have to have a minimum of a two card Club suit when opening 1C.

When are players at these levels allowed to use conventions that include bids not allowed at their level. We have a number of Intermediate players that play the Polish Club, where the 1C opening does not promise a two card suit, as well as Junior players that play the multi 2

Thanks,

Marion

Started by MARION ARLIDGE on 10 Jun 2021 at 04:48PM

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  1. NICK WHITTEN10 Jun 2021 at 08:46PM

    Hi Marion

    Those regulations apply just to Junior Tournaments

    At other levels Juniors can play any systems legal for that level of tournament

    cheers
    Nick

  2. MARION ARLIDGE10 Jun 2021 at 10:11PM

    Thanks Nick

    What about intermediates in an 8B tournament, can they play the polish club

  3. NICK WHITTEN11 Jun 2021 at 07:52AM

    If Polish Club (or any methods for that matter) is permitted at that level of tournament then anyone playing in that tournament may play it regardless of their own grade

    I'm not familar with Polish Club but almost certain it is permitted at any B-point tournament except Junior

    The basic rules are:
    Junior: simple systems only
    Other B-Points: all except weird artifical systems
    A-Points: all except HUMs unless 8 or more boards per round in which case anything goes subject to the opponents being given adequate opportunity to prepare a defence

  4. SEAN LYNCH16 Jun 2021 at 02:09PM

    The Polish club has many variants.

    A 1♣ opening normally promises either an above-average balanced opening hand, a natural 1 club opener, or any strong hand.

    Technically, the NZ bridge manual (D41 to D48) appears to indicate that the normal variant of the Polish club is a Red System as the 1♣ opening is not always strong (so not a Blue system), and may have less than 2 clubs when strong (so not a Green system), and the system doesn't otherwise meet the criteria for a Yellow system.

    If played as a variant that always promises 2 clubs for the 1♣ opening (i.e all strong hands are balanced or semi-balanced) then it appears to be a qualifying Red system that may be played in 5B and 8B tournaments as these events require 1♣  opening bids to have at least 2 cards, unless a Blue system, otherwise it appears the normal Polish club variant can only be played in open A events (by any level pair). 

    I'm not a Director so this interpretation should be checked with a National Qualified Director.

     

  5. SEAN LYNCH16 Jun 2021 at 04:47PM

    There is some reason to argue that my interpretation above may be too simple as the NZ bridge manual appendix 3 D50 has a table that states for Junior/Intermediate tournaments the 1C opening may be "Minimum suit length , 2 cards; opening strength OR Simple Precision, with no relay or artificial responses other than negative 1D response"  and for Intermediate tournaments "precision style (strong,forcing,any distribution ) may include relay or artificial responses" with the following note:

    Note "Precision" may also include any convention/treatment that is allowed to be played at this level with a natural (Green) system.

    Whilst I argued above that the two conditions were mutually exclusive, it appears if "Precision" may include any treatment allowed to be played with a Green system it may be valid to argue that the Polish club 1C bid may satisfy either of the conditions given in the table and is a Blue system as it is a 'Precision' variant that also includes treatments allowed to be played with a natural (Green) system as options in its 1C opening. Whether or not this would still be considered "simple" is arguable for junior/intermediate tournaments.

    However, if this alternative interpretation were valid, it would be able to be played in 5B and 8B tournaments as a Blue system.

  6. SEAN LYNCH20 Jun 2021 at 10:29PM

    Whilst not directly relevant as NZ bridge may amend bidding system requirements locally in New Zealand the World Bridge Federation systems policy states for a Blue system:

    Blue

    Strong Club / Strong Diamond, where one club / one diamond is always strong

     

    While also not directly relevant the Australian Bridge Federation manual is also clearer in that it states for a qualifying Blue system:

    a) One club/one diamond is artificial, forcing and always strong.

    So I now think my original interpretation is more likely to be the intent of the NZ bridge manual and that the Polish club is a Red system rather than a Blue system.

     

     

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