Put them right?

I heard this horror story recently

EW are new players straight out of the learners class

First hand of the set West makes an insufficient bid
NS tell West he can't do that, but "we won't call the director, just change it"
bidding (and play) continue "normally"

Second hand of the set the bidding goes:
North: 1H; East: X; South: pass; West: pass

NS tell West he can't do that, in exactly the same tone as on the previous hand
"You must bid your best suit other than hearts"

West, whose best suit other than hearts (in which he holds Q J 10 9 8 7), is Axx in diamonds obediently bids 2D and goes down badly for a bottom board

1Hx would have been a top board for EW

NS maintain they have been told they are encouraged (or even "ordered") to allow beginners to "correct mistakes at the table"

Personally I don't think anyone should be interfere in that way.

What do others think?

NS

 

Started by NICK WHITTEN on 07 Jul 2018 at 09:47PM

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  1. GILES HANCOCK13 Jul 2018 at 11:13AM

     

    Hi Nick

    I agree, this should be strongly discouraged.    Two different situations here, and the first one is an infraction and the Director should definitely be called to give all options (and options for LHO).   I really despise players saying "just make it good".

     

    The takeout double example is classic.   Yes, usually partner is asking you to bid your best suit, but Pass and 1NT are sometimes options.   Opps shouldn't say anything, and the club should have a rule - say nothing !   I think the beginner's have a case here for an adjustment.

    We have the NZB cheat sheet booklet which we allow beginners to consult at the table.   Occasionally I will say "you're looking at the wrong page" or "it's not in there" but even that's a bit naughty :)

     

    cheers, Giles

     

     

  2. NICK WHITTEN13 Sep 2020 at 01:10PM


    Hi Giles

    There are two scenarios here (well three counting the infraction which I fully agree with your comments here)

    1     Beginner is unsure of what s/he should do
           IMO to give them some guidance is, as you say here,  a bit naughty at worst

           but

    2     If they think they know but get it wrong, others at the table should NEVER!! interfere
           (even capitals + bold + italic + 2 exclamation marks doesn't say it strong enough :)

    WHY?
    Because what do you do if "getting it wrong" gave them a better result?

    cheers, Nick

  3. Ella Gray22 Mar 2021 at 04:25AM

    The second scenario is interesting.  The advice NS gave to the new players was correct and in the majority of instances, the best course for W to take, just not in this instance.

    Two points -

    did W pass because she/he thought it the best call or because they didn't know what to do.  I wouldn't think a cheat sheet would cover a scenario such as this.  A discussion after the board with the Director present praising W for the pass call would have been a very good learning experience for the new players, especially if you were the Director, Nick.

    this should be a case for a score adjustment 

    The main question remains, what do clubs want members to do when playing against beginners - give them advice with the bidding when appropriate or let them make their mistakes and learn from them 'just as we had to'.    I realise this raises another question - when is it appropriate?

    How many of us would not have given this advice to W.

     

     

  4. JENA ROBINSON26 Mar 2021 at 03:30PM

    This is such an old thread but really interesting ..................

    At my club we are ordered not to "call the director on a beginner" (and by the way someone can still be a beginner months after the conclusion of lessons)

    This means all manner of things can (and do) happen at the table. It also sets up the director as someone to be "scared of" rather than someone who can explain the regulations and restore equity.

     

    Bidding mistakes and errors happen - why not allow the director to sort this? Beginners may be treated more leniently but at least the law will be explained correctly and they will learn that the director is friend not foe 

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