ALERTING A 2 CLUB OPENING BID or not
Having recently joined another Club, I am noticing a plethora of players (Juniors and Intermediates who play club level bridge only) opening an unalerted 2 Clubs with semi-balanced hands and HCP as low as 16. These are not being played as game force hands. I would really appreciate a definitive criteria of what constitutes an unalterted 2 Club opener. My understanding of the current NZ Bridge Manual is that a 23 HCP 2 Club opening bid does not require an alert, but other uses of this bid do require an alert. Yes or no?
I am also seeking clarification on the "Rule of 29" which I stumbled across while listening to an episode of the radio show 'The Bridge Zone' recently, where Julie Atkinson was discussing the concept that a 2 Club opening bid (if not holding 23 HCP) must add up to 29, comprising total HCP and one point each for every card in the two longest suits held by the opener e.g. 17 HCP, and two 6 card suits = 29. Is this mandatory now? Is this an exception to the NZ Manual requirement to alert if not holding 23 HCP? I couldn't fathom the answer from the radio discussion. Is there any official NZ Bridge documentation on the "Rule of 29"? I would really appreciate any assistance on this matter.
Latest Posts on this Thread
- NICK WHITTEN02 Mar 2021 at 09:41AM
I think its all quite simple although some like to introduce unnecessary complications like a minimum number of HCP or the rule of 29
The Manual says don't alert game force and alert other uses
So what does "game force" mean?
It simply means "if you intend to force to game in ALL circumstances" (no matter how discouragingly the auction develops)The only exception would be if the opponents get into the bidding and you decide to sock them instead of bidding your game
And of course the balanced 23 point hand which most partnerships allow to be played below game with a VERY weak partner's hand
So if by your methods you may stop below game after a 2C opening then that opening needs an alert
- RONA DRISCOLL02 Mar 2021 at 03:12PM
The NZB manual defines game force on page D44 :
Game Force
A hand containing
(a) 23+ HCP if balanced or semi-balanced or;
(b) 20+ HCP if unbalanced (with allowance for
distribution – 1 point for every card after the
ninth card in the two longest suits)
Note: Losing trick count, alone, is not adequate
for determining whether a hand qualifies as a
Game Force hand.The "rule of 29" is an alternative explanation of how hands of less than 20 HCP meet the criteria. For example, if you have 10 cards in your two longest suits you can add 1 point, so 19 HCP points is enough to meet (b) above. This is the same as 19HCP + 10 cards in two longest suit = 29
The self-alerting 2C bids on page D58 only apply if the hand meets the GF criteria above.
All other 2C openers, including the one in Adele's example, must be alerted, You can play GF however you like, but if it is not the same as the definition on page D44 then the 2C opener must be alerted.
Hope this helps.
- NICK WHITTEN02 Mar 2021 at 04:07PM
I can't comprehend the preceived need to define "game gorce" with such a convoluted mathematical formulaSurely game force means game force
(IOW the partnership is always committed to game)The problem with any convoluted mathematical formula is it can bring in absurdities such as
a hand with AKJT98 in both majors and one small minor suit card is not Game Force
and a hand with AKJT98 in both majors and a minor suit jack is Game ForceCan anyone construct a dummy with which the first hand can't make game but the second one can?
- BARRY JONES02 Mar 2021 at 07:40PM
I'm just delighted to read that Adele listens to The Bridge Zone which is produced weekly and includes a regular segment with "Judge Julie" on directing matters that's proved very popular.
I think Julie must be coming up to her 100th episode and we aren't close to running out of questions for her yet.
There's a question coming up for her "Why would you want to be a director ?" this week or next.
That could be of interest to readers of this forum and you can listen to the podcast any time you like by clicking on the link that comes up each week on the front page of the NZ Bridge website.
Cheers,
- SEAN LYNCH03 Mar 2021 at 10:28PM
A purpose of the definition seems to be to prevent unalerted 2C openings without either a very distributional unbalanced strong hand (16 HCP with 13 cards in two longest suits, 17 HCP with 12 cards in 2 longest suit, 18 HCP with 11 cards in 2 longest suits, 19 HCP with 10 cards in 2 longest suits, 20 HCP with 9 card in 2 longest suits, 21 HCP with 8 card in 2 longest suit) or 23+ HCP balanced or semi-balanced.
If you wanted to open 2C as a game forcing bid and to also have partnership agreements to open other distributional hands with 10 to 15 HCP such as
KQJT987
KQJT98
that did not meet the definition of a game force hand then the 2C opening bid must then be alerted. However, you must then classify your system as a Red system as it no longer meets the definition of a green system.
If you wanted to also include potential hands with less than 10 HCP like
AKQxxxxxxx
xxx
in your partnership agreements for your alerted 2C opening then this would be a Brown Sticker convention if you lowered the lower HCP limit below 10 HCP. However, there is probably no necessity to remove the lower HCP limit below 10 HCP as the likelihood of ever having the second hand is very low and it is permissible to underbid occasionally by 2 HCP and not grossly misrepresent partnership agreements.
Similarly, the junior and intermediate players who are opening 2C without either a weak or strong hand must alert these bids and also declare their systems Red as these bids do not meet the requirements of a Green or Blue system.
This has no implications for the intermediate players who may still play their Red systems in intermediate tournaments, but the Junior players will not be able to play these Red systems in Junior tournaments which require Green or Blue systems (if they ever wanted to do so).
On page D46 of NZBM a Green system is defined as:
o The bid of a suit at the 2 level that is strong and promises at least 5 cards in the bid suit and at least 4 cards in another suit; or
o The bid of a suit at the 2 level that is weak and promises at least 5 cards in the bid suit and at least 4 cards in another suit and may contain a strong no trump option.
o Any other 2-level bid by partnership agreement must show a single-suited hand (at least 6 cards) in a known suit; except:
o Any 2C or 2D opening that shows a strong hand and is forcing for at least one round of bidding; and except
o Any 2C or 2D opening that may show a weak hand in either major (6 cards) only or as an option among any number of strong hand types.
- NICK WHITTEN04 Mar 2021 at 01:12PM
Does ANY pair have an agreement they would NEVER open 2C with either of Sean's example hands?
If so I would like to invite them to Rubber at my place and bring plenty of cash
- SEAN LYNCH08 Mar 2021 at 07:30PM
The problem for pairs that would open my two example hands with 2C unalerted is that it is illegal to psyche any hand that has a strong option. So while they could do so it will then cost them a penalty board.
There would be very little risk of either of these boards being passed out if opened at the 1 level. However, pairs couldn't have agreements to open the second hand at the one level as a non-yellow system as it is weaker than a pass in terms of HCP (i.e by, say, having a rebid to show a weak 3 L hand) but the probability of having this hand is so low there is probably no need to discuss and create any partnership agreements for having it.
- NICK WHITTEN09 Mar 2021 at 08:05AM
A psyche by definition is a GROSS mis-description of strength
So can a "game force" opening bid with 10 top spades be called "gross"?
I think not
- SEAN LYNCH09 Mar 2021 at 08:29AM
NZ Bridge Manual 2020
35. Appendix 15. Deceptive Calls and Play
A "psyche" is a deliberate gross misrepresentation of your high card strength and/or the length of one of your suits (Laws of Duplicate Bridge 2017, page 21). Note: The key words are "deliberate and "gross".
To make a wrong bid accidentally is not a "psyche" – it is not deliberate. To shade an opening bid by a couple of points is not a "psyche" – it is not gross.
A player may depart from his agreed partnership methods in an attempt to deceive the opponents as long as his partner is no more aware of the violation than the opponents.
A partnership understanding exists when the frequency of psychic calls is sufficient for the partner of the player who made the call, to take his awareness of this possibility into account, whether he actually does or not.
Opponents must be made aware if a partnership, from time to time, makes calls that are gross violations of the normal meanings and where the nature or type of violation may be anticipated. These understandings may be explicitly agreed or they may have developed from partnership experience or mutually shared knowledge not available to the opponents.
If a partnership has an agreement that so-called psychic calls are to be expected, or there is provision for systemic protections for them, are classified as HUM (Yellow). These calls, based on partnership understanding, cannot properly be called ‘psychic’ and such methods are only permitted as detailed in the relevant System Regulations (Page D47)
If the Director judges that there is undisclosed knowledge adversely affecting the result, he shall adjust the score and may award a procedural penalty.
The psyching of a conventional bid which is unequivocally forcing and systematically indicates the strongest possible hand (eg a Game Forcing 2C or a Precision 1C) is strictly forbidden.
- NICK WHITTEN09 Mar 2021 at 03:12PM
North Dealer
Both sides vulnerableWhat do you open with the North cards?
AKJT98
AKJT98
void
x
xxx Qxx
x Qx
AKxx Jxxxx
Jxxxx AQx
x
xxxx
Qxxx
KxxxSo we can put some numbers to different outcomes
Say the opposing team's North opened 4S with that and got +650 - SEAN LYNCH10 Mar 2021 at 01:38AM
So, the good news Nick, is that it would be possible to open this hand as an unalerted 2C game forcing bid as it wouldn't be considered a psyche bid if underbid as it is not more than 2 points less than the expected HCP strength for this hand shape provided the underbid was made irregularly without partnership agreement.
However, the normal partnership agreements would have to be to open this HCP range and shape with another bid. Probably 1S.
This new definition for an unalerted game forcing 2C makes it more difficult for a green, blue, or red system to bid this sort of hand optimally. The comforting factor is that almost everyone else will have a similar issue.
Since you asked, if playing an open teams style event we would bid this using our Yellow classified system that is based on modified losers and losing trick count evaluation.
1C. - 1D. -
1H. - 1S -
2C - 2D -
2H - 2S -
2N - 3H -
3S - 4C -
4D - 4S -
6H - - -
Where:
1C. <=6 L, 0, 0 - 37
1D. >=9 L or <=8 L 4M, 0, (0 - 36)
1H. <=5 L,0, (3 - 37)
1S. >=10 L or <= 9L 4M, 0, (0 - 36)
2C. <=3 L or 23+HCP,0, (6 - 37)
2D. >=10 L 5 - 6H or <=10 L 4M, 0, (0 - 34)
2H. Shape asking relay
2S. <=10 L 4M, 0, (0 - 34)
2N. Shape asking relay
3H. <=10 L 10TL 4C4D4H1S, 4, (0 - 34)
3S. Loser asking relay
4C. 9 loser, (0 - 10)
4D. CRO
4S. 0 - 3 Aces, (0 - 9)
6H. To play
From the law of total losers North knows that South has either 1A or 1K, or a K and Q, or 2 Q, or 3Q in HDC. With 9 losers and our 2 loser hand the rule of 18 indicates a grand slam might be possible. After South denies having a ace we can’t avoid a club loser and as long as spades break no worse than 4-2 and hearts 2-1 we can play to make 6H by ruffing 2 spades.
We don’t generally use HCP for our hand evaluation and they are not generally part of our agreements after the opening bid except for some no trump bidding. We provide HCP for our opening bids as part of our written defence. I’ve especially worked out the HCP ranges for each bid and included them in brackets just to demonstrate why we don’t generally use HCP evaluation as part of our partnership agreements.
Playing a Yellow system as you can see provided we don't have any bidding misunderstandings it isn't difficult for North to find the best contract as they have a complete picture of the key features of South's hand.
- NICK WHITTEN10 Mar 2021 at 08:38AM
Thats a perfect way to bid it if the methods aren't limited to those allowed at Junior level
Otherwise at Junior level here are two ways to bid it
[a]
N 2C (game force)
S 2D (negative)
N 2S (5+ spades)
S 3C (natural; denies 3 spades)
N 3H (4+ hearts)
S 4H (4+ hearts)
N 6H (expecting not to lose to either major suit Q (H will drop; S can be ruffed out))
all passResult +1430 GAIN 13 IMPs (against team-mates -680)
[b]
N 1S (somewhere between the "rule of 20" and the "rule of 29")
all passResult +200 LOSS 10 IMPs
- HELENE LABRECHE10 Mar 2021 at 09:29PM
Hello, I have been reading all the comments here so far...and I am still confused...I asked Murray Wiggins to clarify this for me...but no reply yet!
When I read the definition of a GF hand in the Manual, p.D44 (24.6)...a) 23 + HCP if Bal or Semi -bal...( I assume this involves the 2D ( GF Benji 2)??? and then b) 20 + HCP if unbalanced with allowance for distribution etc..
Well, I know my mother tongue is not english but hello ? I teach bridge with the "Curriculum" on the NZB website for beginners and
2 C GF is 20+ HCP period ! so... We are teaching something wrong ? because, if a hand is "23 + HCP and BALanced, the lessons teach to open 2C, then partner says (what ever) and the opener rebids 2NT (23-24 bal ) or ( 25 + bal )
This reminds me of the lessons teaching that 1NT pass 2c ( 5 card+ and to play) is ALERTABLE actually but would any teacher dare tell that to their beginner class? ( I would probably lose 1/2 of them the next week) when actually Stayman is NOT ALERTABLE.
According to what I read here....It seems to me that any 2C opener that is not "Kosher" should just be alerted...whatever the system. End of !
Therefore, I would still open with distribution etc...but alert the 2C...and explain properly what it means ....please comments are very welcome here.
Thank you
Helene Labreche
East Coast Bays Bridge Club
- SEAN LYNCH10 Mar 2021 at 10:56PM
I understand the point being made but it would be more clear if South's QD were placed in West's hand. Interestingly 6H makes if South has no HCP.
For Juniors they will need to decide what their systemic openings will be for their 20 HCP balanced 5 card majors and 4441 shape hands which only total 28 pts with their 2 longest suits. They can't have systemic agreements to open these as an unalerted 2C game force bid. They can't play a multi-2D in Junior tournaments.
One option would be for their balanced 2NT opening to include a 5 card major.
However, if they instead choose to open 1H and 1S with a 20 HCP 5332 shape then passing a 1H or 1S opening with 5 HCP is also often going to lead to poor results.
Similarly, they will need to allow for 1C,1D, or 1H to be opened with a 20 HCP 4441 shape. There, would also be some 21 HCP and 22 HCP 4441 hands that even though they meet the rule of 29 requirements might be preferred to be opened as a 1 level suit bid rather than as an unalerted 2C game force bid (e.g AQJx, AQJx,K, AJxx) and be risked being passed out.
- NICK WHITTEN11 Mar 2021 at 08:26AM
A problem arises with the belief the point-count is sacrosant
it is not!!It is a tool for assessing the trick-taking potential of a hand or a partrnership's pair of hands
It works pretty well for balanced hands but becomes less so as hands become more unbalanced
To such an extent it becomes useless with freak hands like any of the examples quoted in this threadFurthermore the number of tricks in a humungous freak hand is easily assessed directly
For example a hand with10 top spades and three singletons will make 10 tricks
No more, no less
Regardless of whether any of the three singletons are small cards or kings or anything in between
So to have a division within that point-range where to open 2C is alertable (or even illegal, as a psyche) is absurdI think Helene does the right thing in always alerting the 2C opening
and to "explain properly" would mean say "if balanced it will be 23+ HCP, if unbalanced it is forcing to game but might be a freak hand not meeting the rule of 29" - SEAN LYNCH12 Mar 2021 at 10:45PM
Hi Helen,
The lessons do not presently provide for hands to be opened 2C with 16-19 HCP. The “20+ distributional" would otherwise require a note to bring it completely into line with the NZB manual 2020.
I misinterpreted an earlier post explaining the rule of 29. The “rule of 29” only applies for hands with less than 20 HCP. So a 20+ HCP 4441 shape may be opened as an unalerted 2C bid. So I was mistaken earlier when I posted 21+ HCP would be the minimum required for this hand shape.
I think explaining HCP and distribution points to beginners would be confusing and the simplest way would be to still continue to teach the lesson as “20+ distributional hand” unchanged. This would cover all unbalanced hands.
This may mean occasionally accepting a strong 16 - 19 HCP playing strength hand bid at the 1 level may be passed out.
It becomes an interesting question whether these beginners could then open 2C unalerted with the partnership agreement not to open this bid with qualifying 16-19 HCP unbalanced hands or not? If they may, would it then follow the reverse would then also be true that a pair may open 2C unalerted with an agreement to only open with qualifying unbalanced hands in the 16-19 HCP range, but no 20+HCP unbalanced hands? Instead, say, opening these 20+HCP unbalanced hands with an alerted 2D bid.
However, rather than spend too much time thinking about this the simplest thing would be to instruct the beginners to alert their 2C opening.
- NICK WHITTEN13 Mar 2021 at 07:56AM
I think the compilers of the teaching and directing manuals need to communicate with each otherAnd come up with an arrangement where NONE of the methods taught to beginners require an alert
- GILES HANCOCK14 Mar 2021 at 07:01PM
Absolutely.
- Peter Hawkes23 Jun 2021 at 10:13PM
I am a junior who learned to play in 2018.
At the level at which I play I have never seen the Director called after a player opens 2C and their side stops short of game. So I was relieved to read Rona's post pointing out NZ Bridge defines "Game force" as something different from forcing to game.
My problem is I also open hands with 3- losers ( calculated by LTC) with 2C. On average hands opened 2C have 4 losers so I figure opening 2C with hands such as Nick gives in his post of 9 March is not a gross mistrepresentation of strength, and therefore not a psyche.
Am I right in assuming that if my partner knows I sometimes open 2C with fewer than 20 HCP provided I have 3-losers partner should alert my 2C. But if I don't tell a new partner and just do it anyway not alerting it is ok ?
Compared with chess the rules of bridge are very complicated !
- NICK WHITTEN25 Jun 2021 at 09:42AM
I wasn’t “relieved” when first aware of the definition of “Game Force” in the Manual.
I was gobsmacked. - HELENE LABRECHE14 Nov 2021 at 04:37PM
My partner and I play a "multi 2C". we would like to know if it is ok or if it borders on the HUM systems.
Our 2C is : 17+Hcp and less than 4 losers or a 23+ hand bal or a crappy weak D suit.( we play Multi 2D)
if the latter is the case, upon the 2D relay by my partner, the opener of such a wk D suit...would just pass.
a 2nt rebid shows 23 + bal , the rest is natural. We do not play this GF. We alert everything.
Thanks for reply
Helene Labreche
- NICK WHITTEN15 Nov 2021 at 07:14AM
Hi Helene
Interesting question
On the surface it appears to be a Brown Sticker method as the multi-style openings permitted in “pairs style” tournaments specify only major suit(s) for the weak options.
BUT
I believe the following kicks in
24. Appendix 2. NZ Bridge Systems Policy
24.1 Introduction
The NZ Bridge Systems Policy seeks to provide guidelines rather than an exhaustive list of permitted conventions. Players and Directors are expected to observe the spirit of these guidelines in considering conventions or treatments not specifically mentioned. In the event of a dispute, the Director’s interpretation is final and may subsequently be referred to the Chief Director for ratification or resolution by the appropriate committee of the Board of NZ Bridge
The question is:
“Would it screw up the opponents bidding if they encounter it in a tournament without having prepared a defence to that particular opening?”
My answer would be “no”
LHO over 2C opening can do the same as what they would do over a “legal” multi 2C
RHO over 2C – p – 2D can do the same as what they would do over a multi 2D opening
So I would allow it in any competition where multi 2m openings are allowed (which is everything except Junior)
I would be interested to see other opinions
Nick
- ROBIN YOUNG15 Nov 2021 at 08:52AM
I notice that most of you are quoting HCPs. The only one appears to be Nick, who realises that HCPs are only a gudie, NOT " abe all & end all". They work fine for flat NT hands; but the wilder the distribution, the less use they are.
My opening 2C, probably since i was forced to take up contract in the mid 50s, is "do I have 9 sure tricks & do I have 4 of the As & Ks". If the asnwer is yes then open 2c. If no then open 1. HCPs do NOT come into the reckoning of 2C openers; & that is regardless of anything the NZB may say in their manual!
Robin
- SEAN LYNCH19 Nov 2021 at 12:56AM
Hi Helene,
Your alerted 2C multi-opening isn't a HUM or Brown sticker convention as your weak option is in a known suit and all your other options are strong.
See below.
Brown Sticker" conventions
The following conventions or treatments are categorised as "Brown
Sticker".
• Any opening bid of 2§ through to 3a that
o could be weak (may, by agreement, be made with
values below average strength) and
o does not promise at least 4 cards in a known suit.
Exception: When all the weak options guarantee at least 4 cards in one known suit and only the strong options do not.
exception: A 2-level opening in a minor that may show a weak hand in either major (5+ cards) only or as an option among any number of strong hand types.
- SEAN LYNCH19 Nov 2021 at 07:29AM
Hi Helene,
However, this convention is not included in those allowed in Green and Blue systems or those that would make it a Yellow system, so by including this convention your system is, therefore, Red. As the bid includes a transfer below 2NT (i.e to 2D) your system should not be played in Junior, intermediate, and open 8 B events.
See below:
5B Point (Intermediate) and 8B Point (Open / Restricted) Tournaments
24.3
(a) Green Systems
(b) Blue Systems
(c) Red Systems
All
All
Limited to those that exclude:
• an opening suit bid at the 1 level that does not show, in the bid suit, at least 2 cards if clubs, at least 3 cards if diamonds and at least 4 cards if hearts or spades;
• a 1NT opening bid that does not show a balanced hand, or that has a minimum HCP count of less than 11;
• transfer opening bids below the level of 2NT;
• Brown Sticker conventions;
• any opening bid of 2§ to 3a that may be weak and does not promise at least 4 cards in a known suit. The sole
New Zealand Bridge Manual
Page D42
- MALCOLM MACLEOD11 Apr 2023 at 07:56PM
Some time has passed since this post was started. It is only recently I looked at delayed alerts as in the NZ Bridge manual and their meaning. Putting in a delayed alert as a small plus sign in the bidding pad square signifies a self alerting bid has a different meaning than normally expected is now my understanding. I have yet to see this done and would like to see examples of its application...?
Cheers Malcolm
- HELENE LABRECHE12 Apr 2023 at 08:52AM
Hello Adele, your first paragraph was correct. If you look at the beginners lessons on NZB website , lesson 10: This is the only 2C game force that is acceptable for a 2C opening with no alert. Anything else is "alertable" and may not be called "Game Force". As for the rule of 29, it is very subject to interpretation and not easy to fathom by most players...I would not, even contemplate to use this myself. In my opinion , it should never have been mentioned.. I would see that being used in higher grade competition...
Those that play a convention called"Benji 2" , open a Game Force bid of 2D showing 23+ points. But this is also alertable because it is part of a convention system and the response of 2H ( wk response) is also alertable.
Over te 2C opening GAME FOrce as per "lesson 10", the responses as per that lesson are not alertable. But any other "2D" response meaning ..."Relay" for example, is alertable.
There has been a lot of confusing explainations out there...I am a strong advocate for opponents being able to defend themselves with full disclosure of what systems are being bid. Honesty is my policy.
Hope that helps.
CHeers
Helene Labreche
East Coast Bays Bridge CLub.
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